My biggest issue with all the tech invading our cars is how long will they be updated? Look at phones, and how we complain about the lack of updates once we buy it. And that's a few hundred bucks vs 50 or 60K! Will most/any of the tech in them still be usable in 10 years? Think of what a car with embedded cell service back in 2008 would be good for today. In 08 we were barely getting 3G rollouts (at least around here). I think all this tech just expedites a vehicle's planned obsolescence. How many of these things will be functional in 25-30 years when they become 'classics'? Pretty much every feature in a 1993 vehicle still on the road today works just like it did when new. (Barring mechanical failure.)
I'm torn. I love tech, I just don't think it belongs embedded in our vehicles - not without a long term commitment to updates from the manufacturers. We praise 3 years on a phone ... that's less than half of the term on most new car payments. (Which, if memory serves me, has inched past 6 years now. 7 is pretty common, and 8 is starting to get pushed out to make payments 'low' to boost sales.)
With the Edge I could update some stuff by downloading and installing from a USB. With VW products they have to have all the keys, call Germany and have 30 minutes to affect all changes and updated. My PCM has been updated a couple times since I got the Porsche but we didn't have to supply both keys. Must not have been a security update?
Chris Pollard I know what you talk about. My 1997 chevy pick up has a phone installed in it. The company that made it has long gone out of business or been bought up by another company. I'm not sure phone would work today even if I wanted to use it. But it's still in pick up.
Renaud Lepage Funny thing ... my "old gas guzzler" gets the EXACT SAME MILEAGE as every one of these brand freakin' new trucks with their over-boosted turbos and direct injection and 'active cylinder deactivation' and auto start/stop crap. I've compared notes with everybody I know with a new truck. I'm within 2mpg!
Reality is, "shoehorning" new tech into an old vehicle is far more responsible than the forced upgrade cycle, increased costs, and planned obsolescence cycle of new vehicles. Not only can I shoehorn in BETTER tech, but I can upgrade it more quickly, and more cost effectively. Our "newer" vehicle (2012) with all the touch screen stuff built in ... can't do anything with it. Why? Stereos (and connectivity) is all integrated with the HVAC controls. You can't just pull the deck, replace it, instant upgrade. But in a few hours, I can pull the deck from my truck and drop in something with a big touch screen and Android Auto/Apple CarPlay if I wanted to.
I'm still a fan of keeping the inside of a car simple. The more you put in them, the more things people have to distract them from the job of driving. The more there is to go wrong (one of the number one new car issues is infotainment system malfunctions). The more there is to repair down the road too. I'll never have to worry that getting a windshield replaced is going to throw out the calibration of some driver assist system and cause the vehicle to try to force itself into oncoming traffic! (Yes, that was a recent news story I read. Believe it was an Audi system ... )
I'll take a moment here and apologize for sounding like a complete asshole. I've had a wee share of the Tesla trolling and anything looking/sounding even remotely close to "lol EV and cars that were designed like iPhones" rubs me hella the wrong way.
Also, to be fair, if I still had my Scion tC, y'all bet your collective buttocks it'd be decked out with things like a modern multimedia system (the one that came with it is made of arse, and that's being nice).
Renaud Lepage The tC was a sweet little ride! I have no problem with the EV situation, except one. In order for them to be viable to more/most people, the infrastructure for charging them away from home needs to be there. Put some superchargers at every gas station, so you can access power just like gas ... I'd be on board for that. But they could never be my only vehicle if I can never drive it far enough to make the nearest city ... and be able to leave again without spending the night to power up. That's not on the cars, that's an infrastructure problem. :)
As it is, the Supercharger infrastructure, even in its current state, is actually a thing I can get behind, especially the v2 design with restaurants. Being ADHD, I don't mind being forced on my feet every battery depletion (a.k.a. what, 500km on average?) on long haul trips, that I don't even do that often.
Though I do agree, Superchargers at all current gas stations would be kinda neato.
Fun thought exercise: you could actually somewhat "litter" the desert with a self-contained supercharger infrastructure backed by solar panels, an array of PowerWalls, and a couple of Supercharger stalls :P
4G/LTE data channel for waiting time would be arse though.
Solar arrays would make an interesting option for "middle of nowhere" charging stations. Would be extra useful through the large swaths of Canada where there is no other infrastructure in place to deliver power any other way.
Chris Pollard I think that's going to be the way, solar or wind for isolated areas. Much less infrastructure requirement than gas stations and minimal environmental clean up after decommisioning.
We could be heading back to 1950s style travel - full service stations (restaurants, activities etc) between cities. Right now we could get to Edmonton and part way back on a full (~400 km) charge. The problem becomes Fred going out metal detecting and needing a top up.Renaud Lepage
Love the tech, but when something goes south, what's the cost to fix.
ReplyDeleteMy second EV is, in fact, going to be a buy. :3
ReplyDeleteMy biggest issue with all the tech invading our cars is how long will they be updated? Look at phones, and how we complain about the lack of updates once we buy it. And that's a few hundred bucks vs 50 or 60K! Will most/any of the tech in them still be usable in 10 years? Think of what a car with embedded cell service back in 2008 would be good for today. In 08 we were barely getting 3G rollouts (at least around here). I think all this tech just expedites a vehicle's planned obsolescence. How many of these things will be functional in 25-30 years when they become 'classics'? Pretty much every feature in a 1993 vehicle still on the road today works just like it did when new. (Barring mechanical failure.)
ReplyDeleteI'm torn. I love tech, I just don't think it belongs embedded in our vehicles - not without a long term commitment to updates from the manufacturers. We praise 3 years on a phone ... that's less than half of the term on most new car payments. (Which, if memory serves me, has inched past 6 years now. 7 is pretty common, and 8 is starting to get pushed out to make payments 'low' to boost sales.)
With the Edge I could update some stuff by downloading and installing from a USB. With VW products they have to have all the keys, call Germany and have 30 minutes to affect all changes and updated. My PCM has been updated a couple times since I got the Porsche but we didn't have to supply both keys. Must not have been a security update?
ReplyDeleteChris Pollard I know what you talk about. My 1997 chevy pick up has a phone installed in it. The company that made it has long gone out of business or been bought up by another company. I'm not sure phone would work today even if I wanted to use it. But it's still in pick up.
ReplyDeleteRobbie Fremming That's crazy. Must have been quite the option at the time! I'm betting there's no LTE data option though. LOL
ReplyDeleteMy 97 GMC truck just has Bluetooth ... because I put a media deck in it.
Chris Pollard I still have factory cassettes player and CD in mine. Ac delco brand. 5hey work too.
ReplyDeleteLook at you cool guys with your shoehorned new tech in old gas guzzlers.
ReplyDeleteI'll take a contemporary and designed-for-integrated-electronics smart car over anything built while I was still learning algebra, thanks.
Renaud Lepage I still want to drop an electric motor into an '05 Excursion or Super Duty truck. They have plenty of space for batteries, and are pretty easy to work on generally, plus parts are plentiful. However, I have seen zero of them converted, only the small Ranger trucks.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Ivk26yDy0_oF7uY6welw12oVlhJ-31zb-JUX_CGvq670cQ755QfQ8frv5x9bFMHLC0fnWgf5_hQ
ReplyDeleteRenaud Lepage Funny thing ... my "old gas guzzler" gets the EXACT SAME MILEAGE as every one of these brand freakin' new trucks with their over-boosted turbos and direct injection and 'active cylinder deactivation' and auto start/stop crap. I've compared notes with everybody I know with a new truck. I'm within 2mpg!
ReplyDeleteReality is, "shoehorning" new tech into an old vehicle is far more responsible than the forced upgrade cycle, increased costs, and planned obsolescence cycle of new vehicles. Not only can I shoehorn in BETTER tech, but I can upgrade it more quickly, and more cost effectively. Our "newer" vehicle (2012) with all the touch screen stuff built in ... can't do anything with it. Why? Stereos (and connectivity) is all integrated with the HVAC controls. You can't just pull the deck, replace it, instant upgrade. But in a few hours, I can pull the deck from my truck and drop in something with a big touch screen and Android Auto/Apple CarPlay if I wanted to.
I'm still a fan of keeping the inside of a car simple. The more you put in them, the more things people have to distract them from the job of driving. The more there is to go wrong (one of the number one new car issues is infotainment system malfunctions). The more there is to repair down the road too. I'll never have to worry that getting a windshield replaced is going to throw out the calibration of some driver assist system and cause the vehicle to try to force itself into oncoming traffic! (Yes, that was a recent news story I read. Believe it was an Audi system ... )
I'll take a moment here and apologize for sounding like a complete asshole. I've had a wee share of the Tesla trolling and anything looking/sounding even remotely close to "lol EV and cars that were designed like iPhones" rubs me hella the wrong way.
ReplyDeleteAlso, to be fair, if I still had my Scion tC, y'all bet your collective buttocks it'd be decked out with things like a modern multimedia system (the one that came with it is made of arse, and that's being nice).
Renaud Lepage The tC was a sweet little ride! I have no problem with the EV situation, except one. In order for them to be viable to more/most people, the infrastructure for charging them away from home needs to be there. Put some superchargers at every gas station, so you can access power just like gas ... I'd be on board for that. But they could never be my only vehicle if I can never drive it far enough to make the nearest city ... and be able to leave again without spending the night to power up. That's not on the cars, that's an infrastructure problem. :)
ReplyDeleteThanks guys:) Everyone gives a little and we find our points of agreement
ReplyDeleteAs it is, the Supercharger infrastructure, even in its current state, is actually a thing I can get behind, especially the v2 design with restaurants. Being ADHD, I don't mind being forced on my feet every battery depletion (a.k.a. what, 500km on average?) on long haul trips, that I don't even do that often.
ReplyDeleteThough I do agree, Superchargers at all current gas stations would be kinda neato.
Fun thought exercise: you could actually somewhat "litter" the desert with a self-contained supercharger infrastructure backed by solar panels, an array of PowerWalls, and a couple of Supercharger stalls :P
ReplyDelete4G/LTE data channel for waiting time would be arse though.
Solar arrays would make an interesting option for "middle of nowhere" charging stations. Would be extra useful through the large swaths of Canada where there is no other infrastructure in place to deliver power any other way.
ReplyDeleteChris Pollard I think that's going to be the way, solar or wind for isolated areas. Much less infrastructure requirement than gas stations and minimal environmental clean up after decommisioning.
ReplyDeleteWe could be heading back to 1950s style travel - full service stations (restaurants, activities etc) between cities. Right now we could get to Edmonton and part way back on a full (~400 km) charge. The problem becomes Fred going out metal detecting and needing a top up.Renaud Lepage